Curse

rustyshackles · Nov 03, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volarian

I have to call BULLSNOT on this one: OP stated he was there to help a guildie NOT to have others in party throw compliments or thank you's his way. The fact that he stated this to the group after guildie Err7'd (probably) and that they didn't even offer one word of thanks for sticking it out.....speaks VOLUMES to how self-centered, self-absorbed, EXPECTING the others were. Sure they may have found another monk if they'd been forced to go back, sure they might even have completed mission with 4 but that's not what happened ....what did happen is a member of their party brought to their attention that he/she was not there to do the mission for any other reason than helping his/her guildie (who lost connection)<--that, for any reasonably intelligent person would have told them that the player stayed through to assist them despite having no need to<---a very unselfish thing to do.
I wouldn't EXPECT a thanks but not getting one would burn my ass just the same to think that there are soo many clueless people in the world, devoid of manners, decency and the smallest amount of good will.

It would have been rude of him to leave, as he never said he informed the party before hand he was just doing this for a guildy. They entered the mission assuming everyone was there to complete it, it's just common courtesy to stay.

Dax · Nov 03, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakerius

Really? I thought the bottom line was
Gimme gimme gimme. I got mine get yours. So sad.

Haha, that one took me a minute.

That made me chuckle....THANK YOU

Mimi Miyagi · Nov 03, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Once again..wow

Bottom line is- Yes acknowledgment of good deeds are nice, but if you expect to get a 'thank you' don't hold your breath. If you get upset over this and have the attitude that it's somehow societies fault, you're just going to make yourself angry and miserable. If that's the way you wanna go through life, go for it.

Oh and thinking you should get a 'thank you' not charging being in a group in GW is just plain silly.

Thanks for reading (I wouldn't want to cause anyone any grief)

No, expecting to get a "thank you" for running people for free, not just for being in a group.

And yes, people should expect to get a thank you for even the smallest favor. The fact that you (and plenty of others) seem to think it's ok reaffirms my point that society as a whole is rude, self centered, ungrateful children.

If you feel it's wrong to expect a thank you then you're part of hte problem with what's wrong with today's youth.

I'm old, and old fashioned thinking goes along with that. I was raised (obviously) differently, to be polite, to say please and thank you, to open doors for women, to give up my seat on a bus for my elders, and other niceties that dictate "proper" behavior. I may be an old cantankerous asshole, but I'm polite about it.

Loralai · Nov 03, 2005, 09:18 AM // 09:18

I am one of those people who is probably over courteous, which, oddly enough, sometimes is misconstrued as sarcasm. And yes, I have thanked individuals for excelling in their professions, necros for keeping my elemental energized without asking, monks who have saved my tail when I slip up, rangers for great trapping and/or distractions, tanks for wailing on things, elementals for clearing areas before I had the chance to even situate myself. But I now feel guilty for realizing I've never thanked a mesmer.

On the subject of free/tip runs....I always tip either gold or dye, usually well if I haven't blown my stash on useless things. I always give praise when it's due, and say thank you. I return those good deeds that have randomly been bestowed on me throughout the game. I give away nearly every bow string and non perfect upgrade I get and lots of weapons to those in need. I answer the questions that send the local chat into fits of "sighs" and "NOOOOOOBBBBB!" rages. When selling items that I can't bear to simply give away and presented with "I don't have that much

but I really need/want that," I offer to hold it until they acquire. (And 99% of the time, I sell much much cheaper than I should, simply because I want to.)

I agree with the "manners should be second nature" camp on this one, as well as the poster who explained his "I'm old, therefore old-fashioned," (yeah, me too). However, life has taught me that the vast majority of people are either too self-absorbed to remember to give thanks or just plain rude. I accept that and still feel a sense of accomplishment for being nice in this mad, rude area we call the internet.

Sister Rosette · Nov 03, 2005, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by c33sh0nd

i think monks dont need a thanl you, any more then any other character. warrior hits stuff a elementalist fried stuff a ranger shoots stuff.. they all do what they are made to do, as a monk heals stuff. so i never really think the monk, but the whole group :P

Um, hi. Clarification. A Warrior hits stuff to pursue his own ends of killing
whatever he's swinging at. An Elementalist bombards things to pursue his
own end of killing whatever he's shooting at. Same with Ranger, and Mesmer.
A Monk is called upon to keep everyone's ass alive so they can pursue their
own end. It's not just 'what they are made to do.' A monk could forgo a group
and run as a smiter, or a protector. We don't have 'HEALING SLAVE' tattoed on
our foreheads. If thats your thing try Alesia.

Also, hitting Enter + 'T' + 'Y' + Enter takes about 2 whole precious seconds.
Try it sometime.

burai · Nov 03, 2005, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volarian

I wouldn't EXPECT a thanks but not getting one would burn my ass just the same to think that there are soo many clueless people in the world, devoid of manners, decency and the smallest amount of good will.

100% agreed.

I'm almost lost for words.

There's only one thing worse than people who can't be arsed to say thanks, and that's people who condone such bad manners by implying that someone is only there to receive said thanks.

The next time I hold the door for someone and they don't say thanks - I'm going to let the door smack them right in the face. Why? because I'm bloody annoyed.

I just need to meditate for a while and I'll be ok.

Dax · Nov 03, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

No, expecting to get a "thank you" for running people for free, not just for being in a group.

And yes, people should expect to get a thank you for even the smallest favor. The fact that you (and plenty of others) seem to think it's ok reaffirms my point that society as a whole is rude, self centered, ungrateful children.

If you feel it's wrong to expect a thank you then you're part of hte problem with what's wrong with today's youth.

I'm old, and old fashioned thinking goes along with that. I was raised (obviously) differently, to be polite, to say please and thank you, to open doors for women, to give up my seat on a bus for my elders, and other niceties that dictate "proper" behavior. I may be an old cantankerous asshole, but I'm polite about it.

I belive everyone should say thank you, but that's not my point.
Being somewhat on the older side of the player scale I was taught similar values. BUT the one thing I have also learned is that if you expect something back from doing nice things you're not always going to get it.

People do things like give up seats for elderly people, and help out thier friends when they are need because:
1) they want to,
2) it makes them feel good,
3) it was the right thing to do,
4) and they were brought up learning to do so.

I've seen way to many people that are unhappy because somewhere along the line they expected things in return for being a nice guy. Yes, good things do happen sometimes, but mostly it comes mostly from the inside.

Tell me this if you help out a friend and they don't say 'thank you' are they still your friend? Would you still give up your seat to a elderly person if they didn't say thank you?

If I ever have kids I will teach them the same values I was taught...
But if I'm part of the problem for expecting nothing in return for doing nice things then so be it.

Mimi Miyagi · Nov 03, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

I belive everyone should say thank you, but that's not my point.
Being somewhat on the older side of the player scale I was taught similar values. BUT the one thing I have also learned is that if you expect something back from doing nice things you're not always going to get it.

People do things like give up seats for elderly people, and help out thier friends when they are need because:
1) they want to,
2) it makes them feel good,
3) it was the right thing to do,
4) and they were brought up learning to do so.

I've seen way to many people that are unhappy because somewhere along the line they expected things in return for being a nice guy. Yes, good things do happen sometimes, but mostly it comes mostly from the inside.

Tell me this if you help out a friend and they don't say 'thank you' are they still your friend? Would you still give up your seat to a elderly person if they didn't say thank you?

If I ever have kids I will teach them the same values I was taught...
But if I'm part of the problem for expecting nothing in return for doing nice things then so be it.

Again, you're missing my point, but I'm tired of repeating myself.

DavenXion · Nov 03, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Not getting a Thank you is no problem for me for minor things. What really burns my biscuits is when someone calls you sucker and laughs about you being nice. For Example:

Halloween punkin heads, my wife and I devised a plot to get ours first. We come back to LA American and are 2 of maybe 5 in the entire district who've got ours. We get bombarded with PMs so we start going through the steps to receive this most coveted item in All chat.

A few minutes after finishing our how to guide, an Ele screams "CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO GET A PUMPKIN HEAD, I'LL GIVE YOU 9 SQUASH SERIUMS". I go though it in PM, while standing next to him. Then after, he runs off. I ask him "So where's my squash?". To which he says "HAHA SUCKER I AIN'T GIVIN YOU NUTHIN". Well I had no plans to take his items anyway, as I stocked up eariler and the king, I knew, gave loads of goodies too.

What's worse is that he implies his degenerative charactistics to others. When I told him that I'd farmed for them eariler, and that I wouldn't have taken his, I just wanted to see if he would follow through on his promise. He replied "I BET YOU WOULD HAVE, YOU'RE JUST TELLIN ME THAT CUZ I DIDN'T GIVE EM TO YOU".

Lasareth · Nov 03, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Again, you're missing my point, but I'm tired of repeating myself.

Mimi, I'll first paraphrase your post then respond to it to make sure we're both on the same page here.

You're basically saying that people such as Dax and myself condone the rude behavior of players in-game, and that we're not only not contributing to the problem, but are perpetuating it.

I will not speak for Dax on this, but I can say for myself that this is far from the truth. I find being rude and crass very inconsiderate and impolite, and I am absolutely certain that people should make an effort to thank others for being kind and/or generous and going out of their way to help. In fact, I make it a priority to do so myself, because I do consider others when they help and appreciate their time for it.

However, there seems to be the issue about others reciprocating that grace. All I can say is, it is impossible to get people to change over the internet, and even though their manners are severely lacking in that respect, there is nothing we as players can do within reason that can change that.

Venting is fine but does not accomplish anything to that goal. In the end, it's the person's upbringing and personal choice not to show thanks that makes them stuck in their selfish perception that they are the world and everything revolves around them.

I don't see how being altruistic and not expecting anything in return is considered rude or self centered. In fact, I think the exact opposite is the case. If you expect personal rewards for everything you do, then you are in fact thinking of yourself in the end, and the whole idea of being selfless becomes invalid.

It's neither wrong nor right to expect rewards, but doing so does go against the whole premise of helping others for the act of helping if you're expecting to gain something in return. Just bear the fact that it's something you cannot change, and although it may be proper to reward a selfless effort, the reward lies ultimately in the giver and not the recipient.

djgenghis78 · Nov 03, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I think you all are actually in agreement, but just construing the word "expect" differently. I think the OP and Mimi Miyagi are using expect to mean that they would consider it rude for people not to say thanks when someone goes out of their way to help. On the other hand, I think Dax and Lazareth are using expect in the sense that one should not reasonably look forward to getting a thank you for help.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=expect

Thus, I think you would all agree that people should at least say thanks, but it is rather unlikely that it will occur.

I will add that just typing "ty" does encourage people to do more nice things for others and that may push those benefitted to also go out and help other players. I think that people sometimes act according to how they perceive those around them. If someone feels everyone else is just out grabbing whatever they can get, they're more likely to get defensive and want to just get theirs too. However, if they feel like people are willing to help, they themselves may go and help other players as well.

So, I do think that, outside of those that are completely incorrigible, how people act can be changed. Well, at least enough so that there may be more smiles than frustration when playing the game.

Lord Orihalcon · Nov 03, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Hate to say it, but it's a free world. If people want to be griefers, so be it. I can understand the frustration you guys feel when people go out of their way to anger you, but my deal is, if people mess you about during a mission, i'll aggro everything and drop out......game over. What you give is what you get.

Saying that, I like to help people as well, particularly guild members that require my assistance. I don't look for thanks, just helping them is my satisfaction, but should people be rude I'll fold them over like a whole wallet before I bail out.

Volarian · Nov 03, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Well to answer the OP:

Yes there is a Miss Manners in game - that would be my Monky:

Bedside Manner at your service :-)

....look me up anytime, I've completed the game and just working on some of the Def quests in between helping guildies, SF'ing and just popping into TH or the RoF missions to help pugs.

benmanhaha · Nov 03, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

OOOO! I've got one. I was doing a run from beacons to Lion's Arch and i was taking people for 300g. Well one guy payed before hand and all the rest decided to pay when we got there. Well i died in griffon's mouth because i had gotten stuck against a wall by some ettins. Well another warrior managed to make it to the next zone and we continued on. When we got to lion's arch one guy left instantl without paying and the warrior refused to pay because he felt like he had done the run himself. I got no money from that run and no thank yous whatsoever.

Elistan Theocrat · Nov 03, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

I just want to clarify. I did not stay for the purpose of illiciting a thank you. I stayed because I felt it was the right thing to do. I was surprised when there was no recognition for doing the right thing, but as I said, I certainly didn't make a stink over it. This thread was more to see if I was the only other person who wouldve found a thank you appropriate in that situation.

I certainly dont think that monks deserve any particular accolades or anything else simply for doing thier jobs. But had I been playing a character dependant on others for heals and the party's monk had his guildmate vanish and stuck out the mission even though hes done it about 100 times, I definitely would've made sure the healer knew I understand that he did the right thing and appreciated it. But hey, thats just me.

Dax · Nov 04, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Again, you're missing my point, but I'm tired of repeating myself.

Let me put it in simpler terms... I have no control over what other people do, if they say thank you or not. So does that mean I'm going to stress over something I have no control over? NO.

It's not perpetuating anything because I cannot forcibly tell people to be polite after the fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

I just want to clarify. I did not stay for the purpose of illiciting a thank you. I stayed because I felt it was the right thing to do. I was surprised when there was no recognition for doing the right thing, but as I said, I certainly didn't make a stink over it. This thread was more to see if I was the only other person who wouldve found a thank you appropriate in that situation.

I certainly dont think that monks deserve any particular accolades or anything else simply for doing thier jobs. But had I been playing a character dependant on others for heals and the party's monk had his guildmate vanish and stuck out the mission even though hes done it about 100 times, I definitely would've made sure the healer knew I understand that he did the right thing and appreciated it. But hey, thats just me.

This sorta dovetails nicely with my previous point.

Your question is kinda rhetorical in the fact that of course a 'thank you' would have been appropriate. The question then is what control do you have over it? Nothing.

There is nothing anyone can say if someone doesn't want to say 'Thanks'. So my point is there is no need to get angry.... You did a nice thing, move along.

Kai Nui · Nov 04, 2005, 10:22 AM // 10:22

No monthly. This brings in a lot of players good and bad. People's time isn't so precious because they're not paying, but then again a lot of beggars come along with it. If we had a monthly fee, we'd have a ton of extremists and stuff.

quickmonty · Nov 04, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

"Thanks" is always appreciated but never expected, and I do get and give thanks after a group mission.

Now, the negative story.

Hanging out in Piken Square (I usually go there for merchant and storage) Join a group of two wanting to do Garfaz (sp?). We get to the place that is overrun by Charr and they both die. (I'm helping with my lvl 20 ranger with newly acquired 5:1 vamp bow string). "Res plz" says one and I reply that I didn't bring a res but that I would finish the quest solo (with my trusty lvl20 pet Fritz). One guy drops out, I finish the quest without breaking a sweat and the other one says .......... nothing.

No problem. Got to try out that new bow string

Yakumo · Nov 14, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Interesting thread. The way I see it, if you do not expect a thanks, then you will not be disappointed.

Having said that, my experience in Guild Wars has been good so far, the majority of people I've helped have said thanks. As I'm still hanging out in Pre-Searing, messing about and trying different professions, I usually find myself helping in the 'Adventure with an ally' quest. It's nothing major, and takes not even a few minutes of my time, but you can easily see who appreciates the help from a total stranger.

The minority who doesn't say thanks, tend to travel off somewhere using their map or they just start running off towards Ashford without a word. Depending on what mood I'm in, I'll either use the map to go back into Ascalon City (thus leaving the party), or I wait until they're half way to Ashford and just walk back in.

One time, I accepted a blind invite, no word of what the quest was or why she needed the support, not even a greeting after I said 'hi'. It turned out to be a run to the boot collector. During the run, the only thing said to me was 'I need those gargoyle skulls' when I picked one up. She had no problem dealing with the gargoyles on her own, I guess I just made the mundane task easier and quicker by being there. I was half attempted to drop out and leave her to it, but as the route she was taking was new to me, I thought I'll stick around. Once finished, she just left without a word. I didn't feel too bad about it, instead of receiving a 'hi' and 'thanks', I learnt a new route to the boot collector without having to explore the Catacombs myself.

Since then, I've helped others with runs to Fort Ranik, Barradin Estate, across the wall, and to the Catacombs boot collector (using the new route of course). I don't do it because I want thanks, I do it because I'm in between quests and there's only so much dancing I can take!

I do say thanks, especially when the moment calls for it. Others may see it as being unnecessary as they're just seen as doing their job, but I do find that it speaks volumes and add to the feel of team working. During a Charr hunting excursion with an elementalist, we were on a retreat, both running away. I got surrounded by 3 weaken Charrs and there was no way for me to tackle them all or get out of it. I was expecting the elementalist to keep running as her health was much lower, and then return to res me later. Instead, she turned around and ran back to unleash a firestorm. Looking at the remains, I said 'thanks for the firestorm, just what I needed :-)' and her reply was something like 'lol, someone has to watch your ass! ;-)'. To me, those kind of interactions just makes going on quests with someone more satisfying than going solo...

coolsti · Nov 15, 2005, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakumo

Since then, I've helped others with runs to Fort Ranik, Barradin Estate, across the wall, and to the Catacombs boot collector (using the new route of course). I don't do it because I want thanks, I do it because I'm in between quests and there's only so much dancing I can take!

Terribly off topic but: You are helping people in preseering with "runs" to various places? In preseering? People actually need to be run instead of playing the game in preseering? I've been playing this game for about a half year now, and during this time the appearance of runners in every post-seering town has grown immensely. It saddens me to also hear that even people in preseering are not playing the PVE game anymore.